What's your guys opinion on Ayaka Sasaki's singing voice?
  • MM305
     
    March 2016
    596 Reputation
    AMomonofu said:

    ^^^^ Chiyuhoko and I really want to say something but we just can't...... No flame war pls?



    What do you mean by flame war?
     
  • March 2016
    430 Reputation
    MM305 said:

    Despite all of you acknowledging that MCZ are extremely similar to Wester/Jpop idols


    All of us? I don't know about others, but where exactly have I acknowledged that?

    MCZ's music is nothing like western pop music, or other idol music. I don't listen to MCZ because they "make me smile", I listen because it's good music. If five old men played the same exact songs (well, the good ones, not "Mite Mite Kochichi"), it would still be good music, and I would still listen.
     
  • March 2016
    322 Reputation
    The only Western group nowadays even comparable to Momoclo would be something like One Direction, and that's saying a lot.
    A part of why we love them is because they're different!
     
  • March 2016
    26 Reputation
    MM305 said:

    AMomonofu said:

    ^^^^ Chiyuhoko and I really want to say something but we just can't...... No flame war pls?



    What do you mean by flame war?


    What we (AMomonofu and I) mean by flame war is that we don't want people to go all nuts, in which I don't want to point fingers at anyone. I mean anyone could get angry and start some sort of argument that would take up 3 pages. I have a "nice" friend who is a hardcore momoclo fan who threw my chair across the room when she saw your comment. Which makes me think some people might get offended :I
    I should have taken this somewhere else. sorry ;-; I probably started the argument huh......
     
  • March 2016
    430 Reputation
    Chiyuhoko said:


    What we (AMomonofu and I) mean by flame war is that we don't want people to go all nuts, in which I don't want to point fingers at anyone. I mean anyone could get angry and start some sort of argument that would take up 3 pages. I have a "nice" friend who is a hardcore momoclo fan who threw my chair across the room when she saw your comment. Which makes me think some people might get offended :I
    I should have taken this somewhere else. sorry ;-; I probably started the argument huh......


    You didn't start it. Mm305 has been beyond annoying for a while now. He's the one starting all this nonsense. If I could throw my chair across the room, I would've done it too...but it's too god damn heavy. What can I say, I like to browse the Internet in a confy antique armchair that weighs more than me, so I found myself limited to a factual response that doesn't even come close to conveying my level of annoyance :)
     
  • March 2016
    4071 Reputation

    If five old men played the same exact songs (well, the good ones, not "Mite Mite Kochichi"), it would still be good music, and I would still listen.


    Listen...maybe. Watch....not.
    I'd go for cute girls with lesser quality songs instead :)

     
  • March 2016
    243 Reputation
    TBH I listen to Momoclo because they are different from whatever pop groups you have in the West. To me, instead of boring and predictable like many other groups, their music is erratic and exciting. They also have much more of an all-out (全力) or give-it-all-you've-got (一所懸命) image than any Western act that I know of. In that sense, they are inspiring as well as fun to listen to or watch on DVD. Prior to listening to Momoclo, I had not encountered any other group that could do that. So no, I would not say they are extremely similar to Western pop groups.

    Of course, in the end, you'll have to figure out for yourself what you like about them.
     
  • MM305
     
    March 2016
    596 Reputation
    It seems you are all misinterpreting my post here. This is a question based on what people said in this thread

    When I was comparing MCZ to Western idols, I was talking about how they both were made for a similar purpose: (like Mattthecat said) their main purpose is to make people smile. Like Lurkette said here, an idol can be just cute in order to be successful in the idol culture. Because of they are idols (like what Lurkette and Mattthecat said), these idols get frowned up and heavily criticized for it since they are successful for not being as talented as the other successful artists that I mentioned earlier.

    So what I'm saying is that despite these 2 (and others who have answered on this thread) have said that how it does not matter whether MCZ are great singers or not, they are still fans of MCZ.

    What I'm trying to ask here is that if singing/dancing talent does not factor into your love for Momoclo, then why are you a fan? What factors made you become a fan of MCZ if singing is not one of it?
     
  • ebizoriebizori
     
    March 2016
    2669 Reputation
    Their songs, their original performances, their charismatic characters and images, their energy

    May be they are not great singers, but they are interesting singers with different intonations in their vocals that each member use
     
  • March 2016
    4071 Reputation
    Idols in general are a combination of various aspects of the entertainment industry.
    In a MTV feature on Alice Project Hyadain once called them the modern day geishas

    They are singing, dancing, acting, modelling, representing, entertaining

    Different idols/groups shine in some categories more than others
    A lot of different concepts, music styles and goals have developed.

    In Momoclo's case it's a perfect combination of music and entertainment.
    And maybe most importantly a feeling of not being marionettes - cute little girls who do what the (male) producers tell them to.
    I remember an instance when they made fun of kwkm Kanako said "Hey don't complain - you made us the way we are" :)
    Granted no one knows how much of that is real and what scripted (at least to an extent)
    When it comes right down to it the office will say what to do. Period.
    But it's a nice illusion. Or kayfabe. I don't really want to know the reality of it either

    I watch the TV shows and laugh at their strengths and shortcomings.
    I watch the concerts and am flabbergasted by the show being put on.
    I am curious about the turns they take and the way they reinvent themselves from time to time
    And yes I like their songs as well (though my personal taste is more straight rock like babyraids or Himekyun Fruit Can)

    So it's not one thing in particular. It's the right combination of several things

    And it's pure love.
    And you know love.... You like tall blondes. And you end up falling in love with a short brunette :)



     
  • March 2016
    220 Reputation

    I remember an instance when they made fun of kwkm Kanako said "Hey don't complain - you made us the way we are" :)
    Granted no one knows how much of that is real and what scripted (at least to an extent)



    This is interesting...how much is scripted and what is real? I think that maybe in the beginning that they were given more of a stage persona, but over the years they have become who they have. How their initial assigned role made them what they are today and how much it is just them growing up - we will never know. But they seem genuine and that's a big part.

    For me, there were a few reasons for becoming a fan. First and foremost it was the non-specific genre, there were different styles and sounds to each song - not just the house beat, chanty, chorusey sound of certain other groups. Again, this is really a management/production decision though. So is it really the management/production that makes the group? (PLEASE don't throw any chairs)

    The other part is the that they are just trying their best with what they have - from humble beginnings in the park, right. It is that underdog story that people enjoy seeing. How the underdog succeeds against all odds - has the highs and lows, but ends up on top and deservedly so through hard work and dedication

    I also appreciated the fact that this wasn't a constantly rotating group with graduations every year. And the non-gravure part of course (dang I put it in there, chairs are flying again and we're gonna start bickering again!!)
    :O
     
  • March 2016
    4071 Reputation
    With scripted I mean less their characters.
    Although that is a good point as well.
    I remember an interview with Aya Matsuura where she was talking about being able to turn on that famous smile like a switch. And one day looking in a mirror and staring at a stranger.

    I don't think that's what we have here. At least not to a great extent.
    But we won't get to see the bad character traits either. Which they will have as well. Why shouldn't they, they're humans :)
    Or the days when they just can't stand each other. Lol
    With scripted I mean that we get fed what they want us to see. Everything we see on TV or web is filtered.
    Here and there we get to see tears or slight conflicts but in a healthy dosis.

    Sometimes a real feeling will slip through during a live event that then becomes "famous"
    (need I say Momoka's birthday Folk Mura...)

    As for whether or not an agency makes a group... ask SMAP :)
    (though I admit that Stardust isn't Johnny's)



     
  • March 2016
    144 Reputation


    In Momoclo's case it's a perfect combination of music and entertainment.
    And maybe most importantly a feeling of not being marionettes - cute little girls who do what the (male) producers tell them to.


    I've been thinking about this for a while, and I realized that this is one thing where Momoclo really seems to stand out compared to almost everyone else (except the other Stardust groups maybe). Even with groups that are often considered more "artist-like", such as Perfume or Babymetal, I get the feeling that the personality shown by the group is essentially that of the producer. The members could really have been anyone and the show would essentially be the same. H!P was similar too before, with everything basically being an expression of Tsunku. In Momoclo though, I think the creative vision is a lot more influenced by the members' identities; the best songs seem specifically designed for these girls, and they work a lot of things that the girls say into random parts of their videos or concerts. I think this is why no one really seems to be able to do a very satisfactory cover of songs like Kaitou Shoujo - the spirit of that song just can't be conveyed properly by most other people. Because of this Momoclo are actually a lot closer to artists than almost any other idol group imo; they might not actually create the product, but they seem to influence it all more than other groups do.

    As for why I like Momoclo, the core reason is that I like the compositions; they are every bit as good imo as what those categorized as "artists" produce, and are in fact probably better than most (then again, they are made by artists, so I guess it makes sense). I've always objected to the idea that artists are somehow on a higher level of quality than idols, as the difference to me is mainly in the creative process and business model. From what I've heard, there seem to be lots of uninspired and boring artists, and there are also idols who have excellent, creative music. I think that before, largely thanks to the 48G, idols basically got no respect for their music because everyone thought the only way to success was to just focus on getting people to obsess over one of the girls, and no one bothered to try to make interesting music from an idol group. Momoclo was one of the groups that led the charge in a different direction, and (EDIT: oops, I somehow lost the end of this sentence) they're quite special to me for that.

    Finally, I wanted to mention that while I never really considered Momoclo to be good singers before, I'm really impressed by how much better they've gotten. They actually have some really expressive lines on the new albums, and they also seem to be way more consistent live than many other idol groups that are often considered to be better performers (looking at H!P here :P). I'd actually consider them some of the better singers in the popular idol realm now.
     
  • March 2016
    26 Reputation
    MM305 said:



    What I'm trying to ask here is that if singing/dancing talent does not factor into your love for Momoclo, then why are you a fan? What factors made you become a fan of MCZ if singing is not one of it?




    I swear if this becomes another discussion.
     
  • March 2016
    4071 Reputation
    Chiyuhoko said:

    I swear if this becomes another discussion.


    Could someone please get the priceless antique chair out of this room?
    Just to be on the safe side :)


     
  • March 2016
    481 Reputation
    Good thing I didn't start another discussion as a joke. I'm not really good at dodging so that chair would probably hit me right in the face.

    In any case, as controversial as this may be, I only really like Momoclo for their music. I don't actually consider myself Momoclo fan; I don't have much of an emotional connection with any of the members, and as such I don't particularly enjoy their concerts nor do I think any of them are that gifted, generally speaking. So in light of the current line of discussion, I would essentially describe myself as being more a fan of their management and songwriters rather than the group itself, and indeed, I do consider myself a Stardust fan for the groups as well as the corporate influence. I just have more of an emotional investment in Syachi and TacoNiji than Momoclo, even though I listen to the music of most all of the Stardust female idol groups (except for TokiSen, they don't do much for me for some reason).

    That said, the music level is quality enough to get me to keep up with them and maintain my interest, which is more than I can say for most idol groups, even some that I might have more generalized interest in.

    Now, I don't want this to turn into an argument (or another thread, heaven forbid) about why I should like Momoclo or what I need to look at to get to know them better or why they're better than the other Stardust groups. I don't need that. We all have different tastes, and you see something in Momoclo that I don't see, just as I see something in Syachi or TacoNiji that you may not see. That's all.
     
  • MM305
     
    March 2016
    596 Reputation
    Chiyuhoko said:

    MM305 said:



    What I'm trying to ask here is that if singing/dancing talent does not factor into your love for Momoclo, then why are you a fan? What factors made you become a fan of MCZ if singing is not one of it?




    I swear if this becomes another discussion.


    What do you mean by "another discussion?" Like another thread asking the question "Why are you a MCZ fan"?

    What I'm asking right now is based on what the fans who answered the question titled on this thread said about how it doesn't matter to them if Momoclo are excellent singers or not. And this question is me wondering if singing skills doesnt factor in your love fo MCZ< then what does?
     
  • March 2016
    322 Reputation
    And this has been answered many times in this very thread, so there's no need to make more controversy out of this than there already is.

    As for Lurkette's comment, it's totally understandable. A lot of the other Stardust groups are debatably more talented as individuals than Momoclo are, although they are managed similarly, using Momoclo as a base since that's the example they use to model their newer groups.
    There are a lot of fans on this very forum that are here mostly for the Ebichu board, and more solely here for the Syachi board, and that's okay, all part of the family. Most people are exposed to Momoclo before any of the other groups, but their love for one group may transcend the other due to various reasons.
    When I saw a Takoniji concert for the first time I was astounded, because those girls are so damn talented and they are so young. With Syachi it's more of a personality thing for me, all of those girls are wonderful in their own way. I do love their music too, but as stated, we all have various unique reasons for liking a group. There's not a universal reason.
    For me with Momoclo it's a balance of both their personalities (the biggest factor), their music as a whole and their level of ability that has evolved over time. I believe this was also mentioned, but I adore their rags to riches story, it's so inspirational. Many other groups, including other Stardust groups who model themselves after their big sister and don't have to worry much about the hardships they had to endure, simply don't have that much impact on me for their stories, but for other reasons as aforementioned.

    So, to answer your question once and for all, you can't give a straight answer. Everyone has a different opinon and different reasons why they love Momoclo or any other group. That's the best answer we can give.
     
  • dmkdmk
     
    March 2016
    104 Reputation
    MM305 said:

    What I'm trying to ask here is that if singing/dancing talent does not factor into your love for Momoclo, then why are you a fan? What factors made you become a fan of MCZ if singing is not one of it?



    personality

     
  • MM305
     
    March 2016
    596 Reputation

    And this has been answered many times in this very thread, so there's no need to make more controversy out of this than there already is.

    As for Lurkette's comment, it's totally understandable. A lot of the other Stardust groups are debatably more talented as individuals than Momoclo are, although they are managed similarly, using Momoclo as a base since that's the example they use to model their newer groups.
    There are a lot of fans on this very forum that are here mostly for the Ebichu board, and more solely here for the Syachi board, and that's okay, all part of the family. Most people are exposed to Momoclo before any of the other groups, but their love for one group may transcend the other due to various reasons.
    When I saw a Takoniji concert for the first time I was astounded, because those girls are so damn talented and they are so young. With Syachi it's more of a personality thing for me, all of those girls are wonderful in their own way. I do love their music too, but as stated, we all have various unique reasons for liking a group. There's not a universal reason.
    For me with Momoclo it's a balance of both their music and their level of ability that has evolved over time. I believe this was also mentioned, but I adore their rags to riches story, it's so inspirational. Many other groups, including other Stardust groups who model themselves after their big sister and don't have to worry much about the hardships they had to endure, simply don't have that much impact on me for their stories, but for other reasons as aforementioned.

    So, to answer your question once and for all, you can't give a straight answer. Everyone has a different opinon and different reasons why they love Momoclo or any other group. That's the best answer we can give.



    There's not supposed to be any "contoversy" about this. I'm asking this question because of the points made earlier in this thread (by Lurkette & Mattthecat) on how an idol can be successful JUST by being cute, and how it doesn't really matter if Momoclo are great singers becaue their main goal is to make people happy. If you look at the poss earlier, me and Lurkette talked about how this sound sSIMILAR to the role of Western idols, who recieved heavy criticism because of that objective.

    I'm just adressing the irony on how despite the fans answering this thread, realizes the negative feedback from the goal some of these idol groups go for (which is to make people fall in love with them), they are fans of an idol group who has a SIMILAR goal to them (which is to make people happy).